Sad Keyboard Guy & Gardens - Waking Shadows feat. eili by pocket-

00:33:774 (1) - 04:13:827 (1) - these sections are 5/5 the rest is whatever

glazing on main 🤣🤣

i singled out those sections without even looking at who mapped what i might be the goat

wow man ur so cool for that

😀👍🏆

about 40 seconds of this is fun

i really love this map and consider this one might be the best of 2024

bro we are in march

i will never ever in a million years understand the point or appeal of maps like this. it's just spectacle, isn't it? its the spiritual equivalent of guitar virtuoso wankery. the storyboard is well made and the map has a lot of clean and even at times pretty visual design, but its just sheer... *technique*. everything here is intense so theres virtually no dynamism throughout. i believe (perhaps a bit cynically) that its basically like someone shining an incredibly bright strobe light directly at your face to get you to pay attention to them. like sure, it worked, i'm paying attention--but why go that far? i feel like most people would consider you obnoxious if you did that to them!

idk i think the maps prety cool

yes but like Why im genuinely curious wat u get out of it (not tryna b antagonistic or anything im just personaly confused)

i dont think its particularly difficult to see why someone would find spectacle or the display of "technique" entertaining

@funny i mean, i think it is for me ^^' that was what i said in my intitial comment at least . is it just about the effort put in? or is it like about the sheer intensity of the map

(i only ask to clarify because i think im maybe underthinking or overthinking it and im not sure which)

Nice to look at in the editor; otherwise scratches the itch that just... kind of keeps itching really.

its going for swag but it just doesnt hit bc there isnt an "oh shit"/pog moment for me bc its all trying to be that so none of it is do u get what i mean

i think both LASS and funny have valid points but i agree with LASS

the best way i can describe my feelings towards maps in this category (i.e. "rhythm game tiebreaker map/song") is simply... tasteless. with almost zero exceptions, the ideas are flawlessly executed, but unfortunately are conjured not from a place of taste, but one of grandiosity. it's an amazing showcase of talent, with the absence of any contrast or nuance.

however, i almost always believe this to be the case of the unfortunate reality in which the premise of maps like these exist: as commissioned rhythm game "epic tiebreaker" maps.

i have to begin this breakdown with the songs themselves. "full flavor" by definition is a compilation of the most distinctive and intriguing aspects of a cornucopia of electronic genres. and i will admit, a lot of the producers who attempt to compose songs like this (including Sad Keyboard Guy here) do an extremely good job of emulating said genres within each section.

however, the pitfall of the "full flavor" concept is that you only have so much time to properly execute each idea to its fullest potential, which results in a lot of these ideas being somewhat haphazardly smushed together. even though each section may be expertly crafted, both musically and mapping-wise, the impact of each section is unfortunately lost due to the sheer overt nature of the full picture.
this becomes doubly true when taking the tournament aspect into account, since most players likely don't want to practice a 9-10 minute tiebreaker for a match, so both mapper and composer are forced to condense each idea even further.

now, this is not to say that this genre of song/map has no place. as the playerbase's skillcap rises, the difficulty of maps needs to rise to match it. when commissioning a rhythm game tiebreaker for an open rank tournament in 2023, it objectively makes sense to request a song that is extremely active in nature. sadly, this is usually to its detriment, as it will in all likelihood be forced to border on abrasive in order to justify the extreme gameplay elements that need to be tested. i believe this map to be a textbook example of this, and honestly... that is okay.

i think that ultimately, considering what the original purpose/intent of this map was, it is perfectly fine. as a RHYTHM GAME TIEBREAKER, it makes sense.

my subjective tastes lead me to rate this poorly since i am not someone who enjoys figurative or literal walls of noise in the world of mapping. full flavor is 100% NOT my genre, and i think maps like these tend to take themselves way too seriously and ultimately don't have much emotion or depth beyond "this is designed to test this skillset." virtuoso talent, in my opinion, is best expressed and consumed through ideas that don't have a forced 5 minute time limit.

however, if you enjoy a sheer display of music production skill and patterning, that is well within anyone's right and i applaud you if you find value in packages such as this.

-------

anyways i guess at the end of this i just have to say that in general i find the "full flavor rhythm game tiebreaker" basic package to be utterly and thoroughly played out, and i hope that in the next year or two we get some cooler songs, and subsequently more nuanced and impactful maps.

jesus i dont even play this game anymore what am i doing im going to bed

you guys might be getting lost in the sauce

it wasn't aimed at the fact there's discourse (policing ppl debating about stuff theyre passionate about is useless and cringe) but rather the discourse itself.

to elaborate a lil, LASS asks what people get out of these types of map because from what I understand, they don't perceive value in them beyond visual spectacle.
that's something I disagree with as although the map is extremely intense all throughout, there's still a good amount of gameplay variation as well as difficulty contrast to represent the song decently well while creating a suitable TB meant for very high level play (whether or not you care about that second point is up to the individual though).
the "sauce" here isn't mapping discourse as a whole, but rather just the map itself. it's getting lost in the map's visual and technical intensity making it harder to pick it apart and recognize its qualities (something you could very well argue is an issue in itself to be fair).

wait how is this song "full flavor" am i fundamentally misunderstanding something

when i think of that genre i think of ooparts but this is just some normal ass drumstep without any of the cringe things from obvious tournament TB songs for "forced variety" like 1/3 sections, tempo changes, etc.

I think this song is less egregiously bad than ooparts for sure, but it still lightly falls into the category imo since there is still a whole lot of quirky, in-your-face rhythm that feels very shoehorned in. It definitely leans more towards the artcore/dubstep stuff tbf but I think even though it’s not a completely standard “full flavor” track all the above criticism still applies

@moonpoint i like learning things from this site its always makes me go :) i love art i love art analysis

anyway re: the stuff since i last posted
i think i better udnerstand the other side of this now . i Do maintain my position for the most part ubt yea tru the ocntext of it surrounding a tourney was a bit lost on me. i know that theres sort of an arms race for grander and grander displays when it comes to them.

and thats where theres a fundamental dissonance to my brain. while i Get it and its the logical conclusion of custom tourney maps i dont think this process really *can* make Good Maps. its the factory line approach to mapping, and i think that sort of robs it of authentic expression (most of which isnt the result of a rigid set of utilitarian calculations wrt skillsets and competitivity).

@Will Stetson I ask this in complete earnest, what's like 3 flagship songs you would consider to be good?

ossu

@koish what genre cuz that’s a really broad question

anything electronic

ReeK - Flower In The Snow: Pitched vocals aside, the pacing on this song is very well done and handles even the cringier genres very well compositionally

BilliumMoto - A Tulip For Genji: Riddim done right

Eckle - Crafted in Ice: Masterclass in production & the rhythm switchups hit insanely hard

Honorable Mentions: IX's Shadow by Miyolophone & BilliumMoto, Starlite by KOAN Sound to start

worth noting as well that both billiummoto tracks were made in 24h or less for a competition

didn't expect to see ReeK ngl. ty for answering^^

This is surprisingly comfy for how much is going on

do u guys like the
the storyboar

didn't know there was one

dawn chorus furry vn