@jas yeah i do love luca guadagnino i eat his shit up like crazy. i understand how this movie would resonate with people who have been through similar things (you, me, quantum included) but the problem for me is that the film romanticises the relationship way too much. even if its from elios' perspective, the cinematic decisionmaking makes it feel like the movie is celebrating their dynamic instead of calling it out. a lot of ppl who watch it wont pick up on the power imbalance at all, and that tonal whiplash is a failure on the films part imo.
i get that the age gap reflects real experiences young gay men often experience—i feel like you and i both have a shared authority to discuss the topic—but like making that the focus in queer media (especially at this high of a level, and this romanticised) reinforces harmful stereotypes against us. not every queer coming of age story (in media or irl) has to involve grooming, and its fucked up that this is the type of story that gets praised as high art. like it sets a bad precedent for what kind of relationships are seen as acceptable or even "beautiful", and casts a bad image of queer relationships in general.
and yeah, if a lot of people (like ur younger self) see it as a romance, doesnt that prove the movie didnt do a good enough job showing how messed up the relationship is? i really do think it leaves too much up for interpretation, and thats dangerous when were talking about something this muddy. representation really matters, esp for us, but not if it ends up normalising harmful dynamics like this. anyway, again, nice map tho.
@sponny hi! so the movie is from elio’s perspective who is the child being groomed as u mention. im assuming that youve seen the film so youre aware of how aesthetically pleasing the cinematography is and how romantic the relationship feels, but keeping in mind that this is elio’s perspective it’s all how his character sees it. we the audience can tell the relationship is unhealthy but he cant yet and it’s rooted in the coming-of-age narrative of it all. the unfortunate part of this narrative, and something i think is more common than you would think, is that this age gap and general experience of a younger boy with an older man is something a lot of young gay individuals have witnessed firsthand, myself included. you think you have it all under control and that everyone else including your best friends are crazy for thinking you couldnt handle a guy twice ur age and everything is all butterflies and a preconceived notion of love til it isnt and that’s what this film is about, just through the lens of the victim. and tbh i never thought ab the film like the way i just described til i got older. when i was younger (aka when i mapped it), i did think this movie was a romance movie and i ate it tf up as that but i never realized how messed up it really was bc i was going through the same thing myself. but as ive gotten older and reflected on my past self i realized how crazy it was that i was like 15 talking to men i should not have been speaking to. youre right that movie in concept and their relationship is weird and im not trying to defend that it isnt, but imo it’s considered high art bc of the nuance it has surrounding this specific experience (along with ofc the cinematography and actors). a normal audience should feel disgusted and an inattentive audience will likely just think the film is pretty, but there was another audience i feel i was part of who thought they understood exactly where elio came from and saw themselves in him. if they were younger, the praised elio and supported him, but if they were older they just felt sorry for him. anyway yea some food for thought glad u liked my map xoxo
@jas yeah i do love luca guadagnino i eat his shit up like crazy. i understand how this movie would resonate with people who have been through similar things (you, me, quantum included) but the problem for me is that the film romanticises the relationship way too much. even if its from elios' perspective, the cinematic decisionmaking makes it feel like the movie is celebrating their dynamic instead of calling it out. a lot of ppl who watch it wont pick up on the power imbalance at all, and that tonal whiplash is a failure on the films part imo.
i get that the age gap reflects real experiences young gay men often experience—i feel like you and i both have a shared authority to discuss the topic—but like making that the focus in queer media (especially at this high of a level, and this romanticised) reinforces harmful stereotypes against us. not every queer coming of age story (in media or irl) has to involve grooming, and its fucked up that this is the type of story that gets praised as high art. like it sets a bad precedent for what kind of relationships are seen as acceptable or even "beautiful", and casts a bad image of queer relationships in general.
and yeah, if a lot of people (like ur younger self) see it as a romance, doesnt that prove the movie didnt do a good enough job showing how messed up the relationship is? i really do think it leaves too much up for interpretation, and thats dangerous when were talking about something this muddy. representation really matters, esp for us, but not if it ends up normalising harmful dynamics like this. anyway, again, nice map tho.
i also think that this is one of sufjans weaker tracks
i didnt like the movie
he's right you know.......
@sponny hi! so the movie is from elio’s perspective who is the child being groomed as u mention. im assuming that youve seen the film so youre aware of how aesthetically pleasing the cinematography is and how romantic the relationship feels, but keeping in mind that this is elio’s perspective it’s all how his character sees it. we the audience can tell the relationship is unhealthy but he cant yet and it’s rooted in the coming-of-age narrative of it all. the unfortunate part of this narrative, and something i think is more common than you would think, is that this age gap and general experience of a younger boy with an older man is something a lot of young gay individuals have witnessed firsthand, myself included. you think you have it all under control and that everyone else including your best friends are crazy for thinking you couldnt handle a guy twice ur age and everything is all butterflies and a preconceived notion of love til it isnt and that’s what this film is about, just through the lens of the victim. and tbh i never thought ab the film like the way i just described til i got older. when i was younger (aka when i mapped it), i did think this movie was a romance movie and i ate it tf up as that but i never realized how messed up it really was bc i was going through the same thing myself. but as ive gotten older and reflected on my past self i realized how crazy it was that i was like 15 talking to men i should not have been speaking to. youre right that movie in concept and their relationship is weird and im not trying to defend that it isnt, but imo it’s considered high art bc of the nuance it has surrounding this specific experience (along with ofc the cinematography and actors). a normal audience should feel disgusted and an inattentive audience will likely just think the film is pretty, but there was another audience i feel i was part of who thought they understood exactly where elio came from and saw themselves in him. if they were younger, the praised elio and supported him, but if they were older they just felt sorry for him. anyway yea some food for thought glad u liked my map xoxo
nice map but i will never understand how this movie about a child being groomed is considered high art. what a weird movie
this is still my favorite map ive ever made