avant-garde

let's go ahead with this one :thumbsup:

adding extreme measures seems fine. i'd even be fine with removing the rhythmic clause from the definition, since that's implicitly captured by gameplay

to add further clarity definition, i'd like thoughts on shifting the second part of the definition to say something like "foregoing gameplay, rhythmic, and aesthetic conventions to *extreme measures.*" this would seperate the tag from maps that dont aggresively experiment (as koish brought up).

also i wanna juice these maps cause they give a specific feel/interpretation but i cant place a definition on them as easily (also cause i think theyre neat) /s/13036 01:22:722 (1,1,1,1,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - , /s/35701 - the final refrain

@nixxskate @monsieursebas my b for not responding earlier, i was at work

i like the idea of labeling avant-garde structure cause thats (likely) the first thing everyone thinks of with this descriptor. but i think rhythm choice is a little bit vague cause i can think of a few definitions that can range from "yeah i can see it being avant-garde" to "ur stretching it". so for rhythm, heres whatever i can think of on top of my head rn

1) long periods of nothingness or very long sliders in active sections or very minimal usages to highlight an idea. some fanzhen maps - /s/1461782 /s/2007289 , flower's mother ship /s/66929 01:10:222 (1) -
2) rhythm that is completely up to interpretation to the mapper - 100pa's basara /s/13019
3) additive rhythm that enhances emphasis/difficulty - chloe's rising hope /s/157871 , val's mythologia /s/48979 , skystar's ame to asphalt /s/159527 (not that great of an example but kinda fits)

so to reiterate, idk what is considered avant-garde rhythm cause i think the classification is pretty vague. also following the example of alien as structure defining/changed approach to mapping, would i consider ame to asphalt avant-garde for popularizing 1-2-1-2s

can't wait to vote no on this tag being applied to every HW maps

the description is completely fine but the usage of it will anger like 3000000 people

any map that stands for something new,for its time or in recent times

riana star map

rinne

What map do you all plan to mark as avant garden

What mapping approach did alien kickstart

@Liyac What is an example of a map with avant-garde rhythm?

I think this tag is still kinda subjective with both experience and the current time, but at the same time, tags like simple can be a bit subjective too, so I guess it's fine. I definitely think avant-garde is a better tag name, too.

(for what liyac said)

maybe add either/or to the definition?

I feel like “avant-garde” structure and rhythm should be separated more instead of broadened together

avant-garde slayyy

i like it but this could be a very vague n subjetctive descriptor

They called me schizo, i answered "im avant-garde"

fire

I Don'tsee anything wrong with this personally.

I am avant garde

yea this is better than artmapping n fixes most of the problems i had with rthat descriptor

i'm personally fine with this, "experimental" was also a nice suggestion for a term but i can see where issues could arise from that one

me when French (c'est cool)

Didn't really have much problem with the word "art" being used initially, but this is probably for the better, and avant-garde is a really cool name anyways.

fits better

agree. someone called one of my maps messy and it hurt my feelings 😭

LGTM!

all done

much more for this than artmapping. in terms of nitpicks:

- change name to "avant-garde" to match common usage and to match stylization with other descriptors
- "to the map's design" => "to map design"

sure

Moving the artmapping discussion to a new proposal completely, which had issues. "Avant garde" is more specific in being used to describe art, which adds a more clear aesthetic to the descriptor without implying intent. This more clearly articulates the types of maps I was originally aiming to describe.

Here were the issues of the last "artmapping" proposal and how this
- Gatekeeping "art": I got rid of the word art in the proposal completely. The new term is more clearly directed towards maps that standout in their unusual design. Plus other maps without the descriptor aren't discounted as not being art.
- The gray area: There were concerns over how experimental something should be for this to fit, but this is something that all descriptors are already subject to, which is why we have a voting system in place for that. The new specificity + elimination of "intent" from the description should hopefully guide how users apply this to maps.
- Not enough data: Imo there's nothing wrong with coining a descriptor that might not describe a huge population of maps, especially with the existence of the loved category as Apollo said.
- Future innovation: There were a few comments that suggested that maps that push boundaries inspire the future mapping scene. From my experience over multiple generations of mapping, these changes more often evolve slowly over time rather. There are cases where one map has kickstarted new ways to approach mapping (ALIEN) but they're fewer and farther between now which is why I still think this can work, especially with how many types of mapping styles we've exhausted over the years.

By the way, my intention was never to gatekeep which maps were artistic and which weren't. There is ofc a side of artistry to all types of mapping, so sorry if it seemed that way. I'm merely trying to distinguish maps that set out to be unforgivingly visionary. I already know this is pretentious lol.