Kurubukko - Hometown in Ruins by phyr

ah, thank you for the detailed feedback! i do agree that we ended up sacrificing some aspects of song representation for visuals in that sense then.

i feel like it's really really hard to do everything without tradeoffs, ig that will come another day oh well.

yeah like that drop section I thought was really cool, but coming from 01:46:795 - 01:51:872 section right before it felt like there was a really lackluster transition between these two ideas to where it felt like visual theming took precedence over more tactile elements in this map
(e.g. having some sort of progression such as like making tapping more intense over time in this section, slowly increasing density over time in that section to introduce how dense 01:51:872 - is tapping wise, etc. something like that that could be directly felt in gameplay)
though I can see it intentionally constructed that way to make the "explosion" of movement in this section 01:51:872 - that more intense, I think that when compared to the section immediately prior 01:31:564 - it feels like too much of a drop off in overall map activity beyond the fact that rhythm in this section 01:46:795 - is slightly different

i did also notice playfield usage ideas in sections before the kiai, and i thought those ideas were really cool, especially patterns like this 00:17:718 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,1,1,1,1,2,3,1,2,3,4,5) - I think look sick and the buildup there is executed pretty well, and additionally I did notice the cramped atmosphere that you guys did between the first parts of the map and the things after the kiai, but when I go to play those initial sections it felt like there were weird drop-offs in overall momentum (tapping, movement within individual patterns, overall activity, etc) between sections like 00:30:641 - 00:40:795 - 00:53:487 -
where the first section is like "cool ok they decided to make it relatively dense off the get-go, and decided to introduce patterning like 00:35:718 (1,2,1,1,1,1,2,3,1,2,3) - that mirrors the way that other "explosive" patterning ideas are executed in the map, and then you get to the part right after 00:40:795 - and it's kinda like oh well none of the momentum (lol) established in the section before is transferred into a different element of the map, so it kinda just feels like I go from one visually constructed idea in the map to a seemingly unrelated idea in this 00:40:795 - section... like the patterning there is beautiful but when experiencing this map for me it feels like those two ideas don't have much relation between eachother beyond the fact that playfield usage in that section in general is constrained compared to latter parts of the map

now if it's something like oh like 00:40:795 - to 00:45:756 is similarly dense to the previous section 00:30:641 - and then the parts after 00:45:872 - (to 00:50:487 -) cool down in overall activity (mostly concerning density w/ tapping here) i could understand that, especially with 00:48:410 (1) - slider being different from the petal sliders seen throughout the rest of this section and then movement subsequently being directed in a more subdued manner compared to previous measures, but there's not much of an indication of that "cool-down" in measures before 00:48:410 - since the movement within patterns before there is still kinda intense the entire time (even when the density starts lowering after 00:45:756 - to 00:48:410 - the spacing stays relatively the same within patterns (especially here 00:47:603 (1,2,1) - this 1/2 jump kinda feels more intense movement wise than anything really before)
and then with this section 00:50:949 - I can 100% understand why density drops off a lot here vs previous 2 sections (cool pattern btw 00:50:949 (1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1) - ), but within the section you have that pattern that I highlighted that introduces a lot of tension (even if not through tapping, the visual density of that pattern introduces tension without being super heavy on tapping, and then stuff after it 00:53:487 - feels like it's not making use of that built tension (stuff like 00:53:718 (3,1) - being 1/2 sliders at a pretty high sv instead of 1/4 or something to continue on with the tension created by the pattern before

or 00:54:641 (1,1,2,3,1,1,1,2) - having a lot of gaps in tapping makes 00:56:256 (1,1,1,1,1,1,2,1,2,1,1,1,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3) - this section where the map seems to be building up in tension with the patterning there seem really weak, since there's not much immediately prior for it to build up from

or 00:58:564 (1,1,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3) - feeling weird and unrelated in elements beyond visual for similar reasons as i've mentioned)

i think stuff like this is why i seem to disagree with this map's decision and feel like they are direct downstreams of "visuals first" mindsets, there's a lot of cool ideas in this map but they don't really seem to be supported by elements more intricately related to elements that are less linked to the visual side of mapping

just my thoughts though
sorry for late response i have syndrome called having to spend 8 hours at unfamiliar building for 4 days

I think the song is soooo ooooooooo mid

01:01:103 so cool bro

wait @Melter can you give example of what you mean i'm not quite sure. when designing this map our goal was primarily to represent the song in as cool of a way as we could think of (which a big part of is as you mention trying to come up with visuals to try to convey like a story / arc of the song)

but for the drop 01:51:872 (1,1,1,2,1,2,1,2) - etc the goal was to have like a rly fast cascading falling feeling with the movement, like so u feel like ur getting washed away when playing, maybe it didn't have the effect we aimed for

and regarding marking specific parts of the map stand out maybe it's not so obvious but we put a lot of effort to make sure the movement was constrained in parts that is not the drop (everything pre drop, sans 00:40:795 sans sliderart - section, is in bottom half, or even lower of the playfield) and the goal was that the song feels subdued, almost cramped even until the drop and then the drop comes and then it explodes out so you finally get to fling ur cursor everywhere around the screen and its like a release.

i do think there is a sense where only focusing on visuals is limiting, but we did at least consciously try to do other things. perhaps we didn't do a good enough job making these decisions actually stand out/executing them, or perhaps we could have been more experimental with other choices in the map, and those are all very valid criticisms.

ok thats a lot of yapping i just wanted to say that we did try to do interesting things lol

Hm...
I actually had this pre-ranked too, but I don't really agree with some choices in the top, I didn't even see that it was a collab at first but it kinda makes sense since I thought it was sometimes jumping from a 5* to a 2* for me, so overall I can't really give it a very high rating, but I was able to vibe with the 2nd top and the 3rd top, those are pretty nice.

not really a criticism specific to this map, or necessarily to one style of mapping (i am the last person that would ever dismiss slider maps or some other certain type of mapping as a whole just because the creator approached map design from a visuals first mindset), but i think it applies to this map for me
it's kind of why i find mapping a bit dull nowadays

what frostwich said 🙂‍↕️🙂‍↕️🙂‍↕️

even if my ratings are weighted like 2 feathers now i don't think it's quite fair to give this one a low rating just because i disagree with how it's executed

but for me personally now, good map = explores multiple facets of beatmap composition (or explores and expands on one of those elements to it's absolute ends)
i think especially in mapping contests maps should aim to push up on the boundaries of what's "normal" in mapping by expanding on all elements of what makes a map a map instead of just the elements that correspond to the visual part of map design (patterning structure slidershapes etc.)

i play this map and it kinda just feels like stuff is structured nice (visuals only), there's a consistent (visual) theme, and those (visual) ideas seem to kinda be expanded upon throughout the map but other elements of the map don't deviate too far from how I would expect the average mapper to lay out their decisions when approaching a song like this

there doesn't seem to be much in the way of like, intentional manipulation of rhythm choice to mark specific sections of the map or to aid the (visual) theme in this map or like intent with movement to mark specific parts of the map etc. it seems like all decisions in this map were a direct downstream of visual theming with little else to go along with it + making it normal density and not average map^10 density like stereotypical slider map that everyone hates

but like, what about the other elements that make a map truly shine? i think everyone has proven time and time again that visual masterpieces can be made, or maps with perfect movement that captures every iota of a song's feel, but can't all of those elements interact together in a map? does a map's experience just end on what I see with my eyes and nothing further
maybe i'm just imagining up something that can't exist

what aika said 🙂‍↕️🙂‍↕️🙂‍↕️

if anyone tells you "mapping is over" remind yourself this